Every Deal Is a Dance Ep.1: The Business of Being Human: Jess Weiner on Creativity, Change, and the Power of Authenticity
In the premiere episode of Every Deal Is a Dance, host Mishawn Nolan sits down with Jess Weiner — cultural expert, author, and CEO of Talk to Jess — whose work has helped redefine how global brands like Dove and Mattel approach representation, creativity, and authenticity. Together, they explore how creativity and empathy fuel meaningful business, the importance of reinvention, and Jess’s philosophy of being an “Actionist” — someone who turns intention into impact. This conversation dives into what it means to build a business with heart — where purpose and creativity move in step.
Every Deal Is a Dance Ep. 1:
Podcast Transcript:
You're listening to Every Deal Is A Dance, part of the Look Legal pods from the law firm Nolan Heimann And now, here is your host, Attorney Mishawn Nolan.
Mishawn Nolan (00:22)
I'm Mishawn Nolan and I'm co-founder and co-managing partner of Nolan Heimann LLP. Before I was a lawyer, I was a dancer and then I was a choreographer. And so it's not surprising that my law practice reflects dance principles of alignment and flow, especially when I'm working with my clients to monetize their creative ventures. And essentially what it means is aligning your abilities with your goals while at the same time balancing structure and reinvention. I want to make growing businesses less scary and less overwhelming for creators. So everyone I interview in this series is someone who has a story to tell about authenticity, about their reinvention and their journey as a creative business maker. It is an opportunity to hear stories of alignment and flow in action.
I originally met Jess Weiner, CEO of Talk to Jess when I was assisting her with some production agreements. And I was so impressed with the work she was doing for her clients and her overall business approach. When you're someone's attorney,
You really get to see how they work and how they think and how they operate. And here she was, was this powerhouse helping the world's biggest brands reimagine how they show up in culture from such warmth and passion. And she was having such a big impact and it was really impressive. But at the same time, she was the business owner. And then on top of it all, she was the talent herself, which means she showed up as her own powerful brand with a story and presence. And I just kept wondering.
What kind of background and training do you have to have to be a Jess Weiner? And so one time we were talking about the terms of a deal and Jess mentioned that her background was in theater and it clicked and all the pieces fell into place. Of course she has a theater background. I could feel that creativity and passion, that understanding of humanity and empathy and that magnificent storytelling and everything she does. I'm both really excited and really intimidated to speak to Jess today.
Intimidated because Jess produces and hosts her own podcast with some of the best storytellers in the world. And I'm just a nerdy lawyer that wants to empower creatives to thrive in their businesses. But I'm excited to talk to Jess because I want to dig into her superpower, understand how it informed her journey and how she uses it today to better serve clients and navigate being an entrepreneur. So welcome Jess to the Every Deal is a Dance podcast.
Allow me to do a quick bio. So everyone knows a little bit about the impactful work that you're doing. Jess Weiner is a cultural expert and brand advisor who spent decades educating and speaking on cultural trends in order to help people feel more seen, heard, and understood. Jess is a trusted advisor to some of the world's most influential brands. While others analyze trends, she helps to shape them. Her role in landmark campaigns like Dove's campaign for real beauty, and Mattel's reinvention of Barbie did more than disrupt industries. They redefined societal norms, creating lasting impact on how companies approach representation and inclusivity. As CEO of Talk to Jess, Jess has spent 30 years building a legacy of transformative change through her consultancy and partnerships. She's been recognized by top business publications, including Inc.'s top entrepreneurs changing the face of business. And she was one of fast companies, most creative people in business for her groundbreaking contributions to diversity and education. Jess has written two impactful books and is currently working on her third further solidifying her commitment to fostering self-esteem and inclusivity. Additionally, she has hosted and produced multiple podcasts, including Dominant Stories with Shonda Rhimes. Let's Change Beauty with Dove. And We're All Going to Die Anyway. And this merely scratches the surface. So Jess. Did you ever think when you were in theater in college that you would be doing this 30 years later?
Jess Weiner (04:19)
Not at all. Not at all. I love that we have that theater connection and performance connection together because I think I went to school like Mishawn at the time and studied performing arts. I went to a middle school performing arts program, a high school performing arts program, and then I majored in theater amongst some other degrees in college. And so for all of my formative years, I was in theater, but I went to school in the late 80s and 90s where the mentality was, gosh, only 2 % of people that ever study this are going to work in it. And thankfully I had parents and people around me who felt like I could be that 2%. But what I think we missed at that time was we were looking at arts and arts training as some sort of superfluous pursuit. And I have to say as a business owner, which I definitely didn't see at the time that I was studying theater and writing and acting, I think the arts training is the most profound business training and foundation for the work that I do every day. I love the title of your show, that every deal is a dance. I think every conversation I have is a scene with clients. The stakes are high. I have to use creative problem solving. It's all improv. mean, a big part of what I do is around the improv principle of "yes and" I'm building in every way. So I use all of my theater training in my business.
Mishawn Nolan (05:31)
Exactly.
Jess Weiner (05:48)
And I would tell that to anybody listening who's got a kid wanting to go into the arts or who they themselves come from an artistic background. To me, it's one of the best business muscles I've ever learned to use.
Mishawn Nolan (06:00)
I agree completely. So let's break it down a little bit more. What first drew you to theater and improv?
Jess Weiner (06:07)
Gosh, you know, I feel like all kids are great storytellers and we're always in our imagination. But I also have the benefit, much like you did, of growing up pre-internet, where we had more time to be in our imagination and our stories. And I have a very clear memory of me at seven or eight. My grandparents lived in ⁓ Queens, and I spent a lot of time in my summers in between school there with them. I wasn't watching TV. I was outside. I was on the street, was in the garden making up stories out loud in my voice, playing multiple characters. You I was just in my imagination as a kid. And I think I had a curiosity that now I have much more of a respect and understanding for. But even at like nine, 10, 11, I was curious who got to tell the stories on the stage that I went to go and see. wasn't just the actors I liked. I was like, who wrote that? Or who, you know, I didn't even know what a director was, but like who made that play is kind of how I would put it. And so I think my curiosity of not just how to tell stories, but who tells stories and, ⁓ and then a natural curiosity for wanting to be a part of those stories. That was very early on for me. And thankfully, again, I have parents who are not performers in any way, but have a great love for the arts and knew it was a passion for me and really fueled that passion. And I remember in fifth grade my mom and my dad sitting me down and saying, look, look, you can go to this normal junior high school that everybody would feed into from your elementary school, or there's a new arts school opening up, but you'd have to audition for it. And I remember making the choice to audition and my parents supporting me every step of the way. And I think, you know, was in those small moments that really shaped the trajectory for me. And then once I got into performing arts school, I was like, ⁓ these are my people. This is where I need to be.
Mishawn Nolan (08:03)
Exactly. I felt the same way. ⁓ so with dance, so dance teaches you to just keep going, right? Dance is about rhythm and momentum and fluidity. And so if you make a mistake or if you misstep, you fold it in to what you're doing. Right. You, the worst thing you can do in dance is stop moving. You just keep moving. Right. And I have found that that has been an incredible lesson for me as an entrepreneur.
Jess Weiner (08:24)
Yes.
Mishawn Nolan (08:31)
Are there any skills like that that you learned in theater that you apply today as an entrepreneur?
Jess Weiner (08:37)
Absolutely. mean, I think it's very related to your learning about dance and not stopping. I think, you know, we would have on stage, right? Like the actor's nightmare is that like somebody's going to stop the show or, know, you have to keep going. You have to ad lib. I think that is where my love of improv came from is that you're co-creating your reality. Every sentence, every line, every idea. And even when you think you know what you're doing, there's always something that goes wrong in every production, right? There's a light cue that's late, a music cue that doesn't happen. Somebody steps on your line, misses a beat. Like, I think that training so young, I didn't have any understanding at how profound that was going to be. But I could handle anything now as a business owner. I mean, I might have, you know, anxiety and agita about it and the feelings about it, but I never feel incapable of continuing to move. So I think it's that dance for me. I also think it's that magical creativity of when you make a play, everybody has a role to play and you start out like, okay, I'm the director or I'm the dramaturg or I'm the lead performer. But ultimately at the end of the day, you're a whole band of creatives coming together to make sure this vision is achieved and you do whatever it takes. I think, again, not ever imagining that I would transfer my work into entrepreneurship. I think you're right, as an entrepreneur, this dexterity and agility and open creativity to make every moment build on the next is what has helped me pivot in business. It's what helps me recreate and take chances in business. And I'm so grateful for that foundation.
Mishawn Nolan (10:31)
Yeah, on that analogy, we had a meeting at the firm a few weeks ago, and we talked about how everyone has a role in your business, everyone. Right? And as you said, as a performer, your biggest nightmare is the lights are going to go out, the mic isn't going to work, your costume is going to tear, you're going to trip, you know, all those things. And we're so reliant on everyone showing up and performing.
Jess Weiner (10:40)
Mm-hmm
Mishawn Nolan (10:57)
To the best of their abilities, right? And so one of the things I also learned, not only is creativity, but teamwork and how there's no small part. If the lighting person doesn't turn on the lights or the mic doesn't turn on when it's your turn to perform, the audience is upset. It's a horrible performance. Your performance is ruined. And so everyone, everyone participates in the performance and the business and they're and it's so critical to work closely with everyone and respect what everyone brings to the table.
Jess Weiner (11:33)
I love that concept from stage to a business endeavor of everybody playing a role. And I will say, and you know this because we work so closely together, as an entrepreneur, learning how to staff your team, learning how to run a team and build a team is probably the biggest challenge I've ever had, more so than any of the deals or asks of services that I've done. It's the people part of it. And I have found that the qualities and the characteristics on my team that have translated the most successfully for me in this space have been open-minded, creative, improvisational, scrappy folks that remind me of like my old theater days of like everybody has a job and also there are some jobs you don't know you have until you have them and then you just have to like jump in. And I think Meg on my team who you know, who I adore, who's my head of operations, also has an improv background. And I think not that I, you know, solely hired her for that reason, but I can tell you over the last five years of working together, it is a real skill that we keep coming back to, which is like the constant iteration and development of the work together. But you made me think of something else as you were sharing that story of your conversation with your team, which is after I went to school for all of this, I decided in school that I didn't want to be an actor, that I really wanted to be the producer, the creator, the writer, and also the facilitator of dialogue after a show. And so I really wanted to be a part of the conversation that art inspires with people. And so instead of pursuing a more traditional path of stage or television performing, I went that entrepreneurial route and started a social impact theater company that married all of the things that I cared about, like cultural issues and current events around art and performance in some way. And I would say where I really cut my teeth on this connective tissue to the arts is when we were like a scrappy little Waiting for Guffman theater company of like, know, in the Midwest, putting on shows and elementary schools and middle schools about topics these kids did not want to talk about at nine or 10 in the morning. And we all not only had to work as a team, but we had to really consider our audience. We had to really meet people where they were. We had to bring that energy and bring that message and bring that commitment. And I think that's the other part of performing that is a transferable skill, which is the connection to your audience, the gift that you're giving in the art that you're doing, but also being conscious of where your audience is. Because you know, as a performer, you can feel it. Energy is exchanged. You know when things are going really well. And those kind of like people skills, as well as like the intuitive, creative nature of working with an audience, and in my case, working with young people, that is also a skill that I came into using now, whether I'm in a boardroom or a classroom.
Mishawn Nolan (14:46)
So will you tell us about your journey from theater and performing and starting the Social Impact Theater Group to where you are now? How did that come about?
Jess Weiner (14:58)
Yeah, so as I mentioned, I went to middle school, performing arts school, high school, college. So I really, knew the arts and entertainment was a space I wanted to be in. I really loved television, but wasn't around, and I loved consuming it, but I wasn't around. I grew up in Miami. I went to school in Pennsylvania. I started my career in Indianapolis. I wasn't necessarily in the industry formally. so as, I think what shaped me at that time was I studied all of these modalities, but there was some like hybrid that I was always drawn to. And that was the art and conversation and the art as a catalyst for conversation. And I think as a young person, especially going through college, I struggled a lot with body image. That's a big part of what my first two books were about was a struggle with eating disorders and body image and self-esteem. And, and that's a lot of where my writing and creative exercises came from as a young woman, it was trying to unpack and understand how this culture, you know, helped to manufacture this confidence crisis with young people through advertising, through the messages that we consumed in media that had very myopic beauty standards that I as a young person, and then of course, as a performer, were very susceptible to, right? I had lots of adults commenting on my appearance and my body shape. And, you know, if you're a performer, you're always trying to figure out what type you are. And I look back at this now and it's like, when you're a young performer, those are horrible messages for you, right? Because I'm 12 years old and I've got like an old middle school teacher telling me that I'm Ethel Merman and I'm going home and I'm looking up Ethel Merman in the encyclopedia. I'm an Ethel Merman type. I go and look her up. This is how old I am. I look up in the encyclopedia like who's Ethel Merman? And I see this picture of Ethel Merman, but at 12, I'm like, I don't want to be Ethel Merman. Those are the things, based on who's listening to this, you'll go Google Ethel Merman now. But nothing wrong with her. She's incredible. But I think the standards of beauty and body image were so they were so oppressive for me. And I think as an artist, by the time I graduated college, I had experimented with writing some plays in an underground theater company on campus. And I had produced some work and I was very interested then in art and activism. This is the early to mid 90s. And so we were taking on big topics, especially around HIV and AIDS. I was doing a lot of advocacy work for my friends in that space. And so I was now interested less in being the subject of somebody else's story and like the object of my own. I wanted to find my own voice in this work. And so, you know, I started to study other things. I was in college for a degree in theater and then I picked up a degree in classics and it gave me a chance to go live in Greece for a while and study the classics. But what that really did for me was bring together my interest in history and debate and civil discourse and how that got shaped and shaped our world. And then I picked up a degree in women's studies so that I could go deeper into some of the of what I was interested in, but I didn't have kind of formal training in. And so I look back at what I ended up studying in college and who I was as a young woman. And I think that really is what set the path for me next. I was somebody interested in social justice and women's issues in particular, but I wanted to do it through a creative lens and I wanted to have sort of big impact in culture. And I thought I would do it through the arts, but I wasn't quite sure how. And when it came time to graduate, I was highly overeducated and also I did not know which industry to go into. Where do you take three liberal arts degrees of things that guarantee you to make no money in the world at that time?
What I ended up doing was I was in a relationship, a long-term relationship when I was a young woman, and I moved to where he was working in Indianapolis after college. And I started to apply for all of these local theater jobs, and I couldn't find anything. I applied to children's theaters, and I was trying to figure out where do I take what I just studied.
And then somebody, I wish I could remember who, because I'd love to go back and give them a big hug and a kiss, but somebody that I met along the way said, you should start your own company. You should just start your own theater company and do the theater that you want to do. And guided me to a grant writing workshop at the local community college. And so I struggled with that because I thought, I just came from college and now going back to learn how to write a grant, but gosh, am I glad I went because I took this course. It was like a four or five week course, taught you how to write a grant to open up a nonprofit. And I, my final exam in this course was to write a grant proposal for a theater company. And I did. And I won the grant that I, was a real grant proposal and I won a grant. And it was from a foundation associated with Eli Lilly. And Eli Lilly was doing this because they were interested in talking to young people about social issues. And of course they didn't have their way in to do that. And so I, won this grant and then I built the company to talk about body image and to talk about the shows that I wanted to talk about. And if I look back now, Mishawn, what's so interesting about that turn of events was I think this was the precursor to working with brands in the way that I work with them now, but I had no idea this was 1996 and it was brand new to me, but it gave me the first leg up both in entrepreneurship in arts, creativity and leadership, and then in brand strategy.
Mishawn Nolan (20:48)
And so then what was the first time you were hired by a brand?
Jess Weiner (20:52)
So the in between of Eli Lilly kind of giving me this money to start a business and then I ran this theater company for six and a half years in Indianapolis and we toured all over the country and I wrote a number of shows and we performed a number of shows on topics well beyond body image at that point. And so we had been at Columbine after the shooting in 1999. Our most horrific massacre at that time of young people. And I was there working on a play with the survivors of that incident about six months later. And you know, certainly thought at that time we would never have that happen again. And now look at where we sit in the world. And, but I was using art as a modality for healing and we were co-creating with these kids. And so all of this started to put me on a national stage. I started to do interviews and press would cover what we were doing, of course. And, and then I got the attention of somebody who was running the Mary Kate and Ashley Olson business and advice at, you know, 17 magazine. And I started to transition a bit from being out in the field with teenagers and focused on these really heavy topics to trying to kind of in the late 90s, forge a voice of an advice columnist and somebody that could translate some of what I had seen on the road with young people into a more broad based media platform. And I go into all of that detail because there was no straight line into like working with brands. was like this eventual integration of all of the things that I was doing led me to have more of a public media platform around being a young, a youth advocate and a teen advisor and somebody who was an expert in self-esteem at that time about with young people. And that's what caught the eye of, Unilever and with Dove. And this was now in the early 2000s. And they were getting ready to launch what would then become the Campaign for Real Beauty. But they were really experimenting with how they as a brand could have a voice with young people when they didn't have products for young people. And that wasn't necessarily their brand promise. They had been speaking to adult women for so long. And they engaged me to come in and help build that world with them of how to leverage my expertise and somebody who'd been in the field with their experts and other advisors and folks. And together we built this path with them of how they as a brand could begin to have a meaningful conversation around self-esteem and body image. And a lot of that was built by data. They had research at the time that they were interpreting. And this is where my trend translation comes in because they had data that said 2 % of women worldwide would consider themselves beautiful.
And when we went back to the community that had done that survey and then we said, well, what could we do to make you feel more beautiful? 2 % is a horrible number. And the insight that we got, Mishawn, was women would say, well, don't worry about me. I'm too old to change my ways or I've already set, but focus on my daughter. Focus on the next generation. And it was with that permission, again, from your audience, here was the permission of what they were asking for.
And then we helped to work with Dove to find how do we help the next generation change their relationship to beauty. And certainly it was something personally I was invested in, but also as a performer, a creator, and now an advisor to this group, I called on all of those creative impulses, instincts, and training that I had to work with this big company and their stakeholders to find the truth, which is what I think we do as artists.
We find that kernel of truth, we play it back or we shape it. And that's what I think I was able to dial up because I didn't have a formal business training and I wasn't coming from consulting formally. And I think that's what they wanted. They wanted the spark. They wanted the creative brainstorm. They wanted the "yes and".
Mishawn Nolan (25:03)
Wow. So let's talk about change because you're a change maker and a lot of what you do is you identify trends of change. And then you need to go in and work with these big companies who are risk averse to say the least, and talk to them about why they should be talking about change and creating change in the world. How do you convince businesses, large businesses that do not want to make change, how do you convince them to take these risks and be a leader in change?
Jess Weiner (25:40)
Hmm. Such a good question. I think there's maybe a two part answer to it. And the first part is the good news most of the time is that the companies that are now coming to me at this time in my career are, and even early on, are businesses that have an instinct that they need to change, that there's something they're disconnected on. And normally it is not an altruistic instinct. Let's just be clear. It is, we are not.
Mishawn Nolan (26:05)
Of course, it's business.
Jess Weiner (26:07)
I that's the thing I have no, I don't have any rose colored glasses about, right? I am not working for nonprofits. I am working for for-profit industries and folks, but you know, ultimately they're having a disconnect with their audience, with their consumer. Something's not landing. Business isn't working. There's a problem that they want to solve. There's an insight from culture they haven't cracked. That's what gets me excited. So oftentimes people coming to me know that they have a problem they want to solve. They just don't know how to solve it. The second part of your answer more directly though is I help make change one person at a time.
I think the younger version of me thought much like Don Quixote, I would just sort of like charge at everything with my, you know, with my weapon and kind of, you know, tilted all the windmills and make the change. And I think the reality is change making comes from changing the people who have the power, the authority and the privilege inside this business to better understand people.
And I think that's what I have found is really my superpower as an advisor is I'm an internal educator, coach and advocate. I'm coming in and I'm saying, okay, you have disconnect with young girls. Well, let's go into the life of a young girl and not just the young girls you know, but the young girls you may not know and let's broaden our understanding of what's happening across the country, across the world, and let's find the connected themes and let's find the opportunities to do it. So I look at it very holistically and actually very sort of anthropomorphically and humanistically. It's like, yes, I know you want to sell product X, but to get in there you want and if you want to sell it with a brand affinity and a brand loyalty, then you also have to help them solve a problem in their life. Like Dove, right? You've got moms who don't feel confident and they want you to help them help their daughters. That's a beautiful permission space. Let's figure out how we get there. But I did that one executive at a time because you need to change hearts and minds. You need to educate them. You need to also fortify that it's going to be a business decision that pays off. Oftentimes, I don't know if that's true. I'm hoping it is. I think anybody who works in our space is working with all of our tools and hoping that it is the traction that we need. But I couldn't do any of the work that I do without an executive or a partner inside of these businesses really agreeing to go on that journey. And that makes me so grateful. I've had some of the greatest relationships in my life are people that have been clients or are still clients who outside of their title and their job and their role want to make impact beyond what's on their P &L sheet. And if I can get that, I'm golden.
Mishawn Nolan (29:01)
So long time ago, you coined a actionist. What is an actionist?
Jess Weiner (29:08)
An actionist is somebody who chooses to take action in their everyday life, small and big steps. And the term of that actually came about, you know this, many people may not know this, but my dad is the CFO of my business currently, and he has been my big business champion and my big business partner in this work that I've built. And he does not come from our industry at all. He is a medical finance guy who I think was maybe a frustrated entrepreneur. I just didn't have the same opportunities, which is why he so lovingly has helped me in mine. But I remember one day, because he's been an advisor for me and a sounding board, this was maybe in the early 2000s, heading into the mid 2000s, I was writing an advice column for Seventeen. I was talking to young people about body image at schools all over the country.
But if we could take ourselves back there, young women at that time, these are now going to be young millennials, boycotting, protesting, that was something their mothers did. There was a different societal attitude then that like, you know, being an activist felt too scary and too big. And this is also pre-social media. So there was this really interesting window where I would talk to young women about taking a stand and speaking out and kind of doing the things that I did as a college activist. And they were like, no, that sounds like my mom. That doesn't sound like me. It sounded like too big. And I remember saying to my dad, how am going to get these girls that I'm talking to in middle school to think beyond their school and think into their community and think into taking more action? And they're so against being an activist, that feels too extreme. And my dad just threw out there, well, what if they're not an activist? What if they're an actionist? And I said, well, what is that? And he was like, well, somebody who can take action in all big and small ways. Like it doesn't have to be about an issue. It has to be about a persona, a way that you approach solving a problem, a way that you don't just be a bystander in the world.
It was so interesting. started using that term. You eventually we've now, you know, registered that term and protected that term, but it resonated for them. When I came back and I said, okay, you don't like what you see in the media, instead of telling them to boycott a company, which maybe felt too big, I would say, what could you do to take action and gave them the chance to say, I could get my girlfriends together and we can write letters to the CEO. By the way, that's being an activist, but it was framed by them as this is a step of action I could take to do something, to help somebody else and to help myself. And I loved it as a principal. I loved it as a call to action for people who feel like these big social topics are too heavy or too mired in bureaucracy, we can all take some form of action in the worlds that we care about. And that's stayed with me. It's obviously a platform of my business, but it's a way of doing business too.
Mishawn Nolan (32:20)
Yeah, and it allows what you do to be authentic to you instead of imposed from the outside. It's authentic and comes from the inside.
Jess Weiner (32:29)
Yeah, and it's also, especially in a time like now, where we have so many headwinds in the cultural change space and the social impact world because of the administration that we have and the policies that are being passed and trying to be shaped right now. There's a lot of fear and there's from that fear can come a lot of apathy and from a business standpoint there's a lot of feeling frozen at the moment, right? Businesses don't want to be in the crosshairs. They don't want to be canceled, but they also don't want to be in the crosshairs of ⁓ the current administration and the way they call out companies. So I think actionist is a principle and a philosophy too in a time like this, which feels so overwhelming and where do I start? And anything I do is not going to be enough. It's like, it's a gentle reminder.
No, everything we do is what we need to do, right? So it can be, can be signing the petition online, which is low stakes, but it's important. It can be sharing information. It can be calling your elected official, and it can be a lot more than that. But I think it's giving folks a menu of ways and a reminder that nothing changes without going back to our original conversation, part of the conversation. We all play a role. And we have a role to play now and being an actionist in the things that you care about is a role everybody can play. don't need a degree and you don't need a job title to do so.
Mishawn Nolan (33:56)
How do you stay creative with the headwinds, with the challenges, guiding all these executives, running a business? A lot of those things take pragmatism and operations and stuff that could potentially drain your creativity. How do you stay creative?
Jess Weiner (34:17)
It has drained my creativity. And I think you and I have had some wonderful candid conversations about that as my business advisor and friend. It's like, this is been a season of my life. I'll say probably from about 2019 into COVID and these last five years have been so challenging from as an entrepreneur and for all of us for so many reasons, but keeping a business afloat that requires human connection and time in front of each other. We had that obstacle and then social issues that have been in an absolute crescendo and crisis point in a variety of ways has like destroyed my nervous system the last five years and I think in some ways, squelched a lot of my creativity. I always know that I'm in a creative drought when I stop journaling. Journaling has been a real lifeline for me to just stay connected to my own thoughts and creativity, but it's just a place for me to process. And when I stop journaling, when I stop writing even a page a day, I know I'm, I'm, I'm kind of frozen myself. And so, I think the day-to-day operations of trying to save a business, run a business, thrive in a culture that's uncertain has definitely zapped me. I will share from a personal standpoint, two things have opened up for me. One is my husband and I have taken up residency part-time or some of our time in Mexico in a beautiful town called San Miguel de Allende, which is a lot of art and artists and a lot of food. And so when I am there, it activates a part of me that gets me back into my creative center because I'm surrounded by that art. And when I'm there, I've been dabbling in art that I was never trained in, like painting. I've always had a fascination with painting, especially abstract painting. I've never taken a class in it until about two years ago. I absolutely love it and I absolutely do not want to find a way to make money doing it because I've never had a hobby and I finally feel like I have a hobby and I'm like, I want this for me. I want to be bad and I want to, I want to not care what people think. And that is a huge challenge, right? But I think that being a learner again and a beginner again in an, in an art form that I did not ever have an identity around has been so refreshing. So Mexico and taking art classes has been really important. And then I will also say admitting what I just admitted to you and to everybody listening, being able to say, yeah, I'm feeling creatively dry and stuck and has allowed me to also come to terms with the fact that creativity is like a river running through me all the time. And I just hadn't tended to the river bed for a while. I just hadn't really kind cleared the debris and given my intention and focus there. And as soon as I admitted that, then I was able to prioritize it. And I'm feeling like I'm getting my mojo back a bit across everything. Because once I started painting, I started writing again. And I can tell the connection to those. And then I start dreaming a little differently.
Mishawn Nolan (37:23)
That's awesome. I'm actually taking my son on a creative retreat this weekend to, yes, to sort of get us back into a creative mode. He's about to leave for college. And so I thought the best thing I could do for him is sort of inspire him creatively before he goes. And creativity is healing.
Jess Weiner (37:27)
You are? Ugh, I love that.
I think so. And creativity doesn't have an end. I think some of the things that I remind myself, doesn't have to, there is no beginning and there is no end. We can pick it up and invest in it at any time. And I think that is a little bit different from our business mindset where we make a goal, we have plans to get to that goal. That goal has some completion KPI to it and I'm in that space a lot. And I think I have over rotated away from some of that unknown mystery, everyone play a part, don't know how this is gonna end up. And I love that. I love that you're gonna reignite that for you and for him.
Mishawn Nolan (38:26)
Well, thank you, Jess, very much for participating in this podcast and sharing your inspiring story and your passion. And also thank you for making such a difference in the world.
Jess Weiner (38:38)
You're welcome. Thank you for helping me make that difference.
Mishawn Nolan (38:41)
Thanks for listening to Every Deal is a Dance. If you've enjoyed the show, please share with other creative business makers and kindly rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. For more information on how we can help with your own legal needs, check out our services at nolanheimann.com. That's N-O-L-A-N-H-E-I-M-A-N-N.com.