Every Deal Is a Dance Ep. 9: Authenticity and Vision: Horror Director David Yarovesky on Building a Hollywood Career from Obsession

From wearing Superman capes as everyday attire to directing features with Elizabeth Banks, Anthony Hopkins, and Bill Skarsgård, horror director David Yarovesky's authenticity has been unwavering since childhood.

In this deeply personal conversation with his sister, attorney Mishawn Nolan, David discusses the transformative phone call with Dick Smith that redirected his path, the brutal reality of making his first feature at 34, handling self-doubt on every single project, staying calm when 200 people are pulling at you on set, the profound loneliness of directing, and why democratized tools mean artists will need the industry less and less.

Every Deal Is a Dance Ep. 9:

Podcast Transcript:

Announcer: You're listening to Every Deal Is a Dance, part of the Look Legal pods from the law firm Nolan Heimann. And now, here is your host, Attorney Mishawn Nolan.

Mishawn Nolan: I'm Mishawn Nolan and I'm co-founder and co-managing partner of Nolan Heimann LLP. Before I was a lawyer, I was a dancer and then I was a choreographer. And so, it's not surprising that my law practice reflects dance principles of alignment and flow, especially when I'm working with my clients to monetize their creative ventures. And essentially what it means is aligning your abilities with your goals while at the same time balancing structure and reinvention. I want to make growing businesses less scary and less overwhelming for creators. So, everyone I interview in this series is someone who has a story to tell about authenticity, about their reinvention and their journey as a creative business maker. It is an opportunity to hear stories of alignment and flow in action.

Authenticity is a buzzword all industries throw around, especially the creative industries. But authenticity is not just about being yourself. It's about doing a deep dive and knowing your values, your superpowers, and things you really suck at. And once you've uncovered this, you want to align it with how you show up in the world. Being authentic is not just a nice to have, it is the critical element of sustainable success. And directly connected to authenticity is vision. I use the term vision instead of goal because goals change over time. But everyone has an idea, some more defined than others, of what they envision for themselves. And there's really no one I know who's been more clear on who they are and where they want to go than David Yarovesky, who happens to be my brother. David is a writer and director of horror and dark fantasy films among other creative ventures. But he was obsessed with telling scary and twisted stories nearly from birth. Just to set the stage, so those of you listening understand how authentically focused David has always been - and David, if you want to correct the record or delete any of this, you just let me know.

David Yarovesky: Ha, fair.

Mishawn Nolan: When he was a toddler, maybe three or four years old, he dressed as Superman everywhere he went. He wore red underwear over his pants, a Superman cape, and he “Dep -ed”- that was an 80’s stiff styling gel. He Deped his hair into a curl on his forehead. This was not an occasional dress up. This was his everyday uniform. One day, a woman made a comment to him about it not being Halloween, and David's response was, every day is Halloween for me. Even in elementary school, he was filming scary movies using our dog and the kids in the neighborhood. David and I shared a bathroom growing up and it was always filled with fake blood and there were body parts on the counters and hanging from the shower. Our dad owns a dental laboratory and David had him make vampire fangs so he could wear them to school in high school. As a teenager, he took classes on the differences between serial killers and mass murderers and he was always, always making movies.

I could fill this entire podcast with David anecdotes, but the few I mentioned clearly reveal someone who didn't think and act like everyone else, embraced his weirdness and always knew he wanted to leverage it to tell horror stories. David converted this passion into being a multi-hyphenated creative. He's directed commercials and music videos, made short films, and wrote and or directed four feature film. The Hive, about an infectious virus that's transmitted by people throwing up in each other's mouths. By the way, that was pre-COVID. Brighburn, starring Elizabeth Banks, which is a retelling of a Superman story, but where Superman is evil. Nightbooks, a family-friendly horror movie, yes, those exist, for Netflix, starring Kristen Ritter and based on a book of the same name about a boy who's obsessed with horror stories and uses this obsession to stay alive. Nothing autobiographical, to see here. And most recently, Locked, starring Bill Skarsgård and Anthony Hopkins about two disturbed men and their twisted relationship. So, let's explore how David made this authentic obsession with horror and his passion for telling scary stories into a Hollywood career. So, David, welcome to the Every Deal Is a Dance podcast.

David Yarovesky: Thank you. I enjoyed your introduction quite a bit.

Mishawn Nolan: Okay, good. So, as we've established-

David Yarovesky: I liked your log lines, by the way, or, like the explanations of the movies. I quite enjoyed this. Yeah, two disturbed men…

Mishawn Nolan: And their twisted relationship.

David Yarovesky: And their twisted relationship. Anyways, sorry.

Mishawn Nolan: So, as we've established, you've always been obsessed with horror. But when did you realize you were a creative and a storyteller?

David Yarovesky: Well, it's funny, I think I was interested in the horror before I understood like anything about how to make horror movies. So, like, I think I thought that like the way you make the horror movie is like with makeup and special effects. Right. storytelling took me longer to find, and I think that's where I was always headed, but I didn't. know it yet. I mean, I have no, you know, ability to sculpt or paint or draw like, I don't I think my future as a makeup special effects artists or whatever…It just I don't I don't think that was my path. I think I always like to scare people. I think I like to scare you. I think I like to scare mom and dad and my friends and your friends.

Mishawn Nolan: All the time.

David Yarovesky: I think I just like scaring people. And so wanted to find a way to do that-

Mishawn Nolan: Why?

David Yarovesky: And I guess horror movies felt like it was okay to - why?

Mishawn Nolan: Why? Yeah, why did you love scaring people?

David Yarovesky: I don't know, but I know that I found it pretty funny when people got scared, which I still do. But like, I don't know. I have no idea why. I wish I could say, ah, there's this moment in my life when I went…I don't know. I think I always wanted to get reactions from people. I found reactions funny. Movies seem like you're in the business of making people react. You're getting reactions. Sorry, it's like, you know, you're asking me like what started everything for me. And I think at the most primal level, I think I liked messing with you guys, with you, and our mom and our dad. Like I think I just liked fucking with you guys. Yeah, I think that's probably the root of it all.

Mishawn Nolan: Okay. And then I didn't realize I played such a large role in this. Okay.

David Yarovesky: Well, I just met on a movie that, who knows if I'll do it or not, but I did say to the producer that one of the things that made me laugh a lot when I was reading the script was the thought of you having to come to this premiere because I made it. So, you would have to sit through the movie and let me tell you, you would not have enjoyed that. It would have been a tour of hell for you.

Mishawn Nolan: Yes, I have seen every one of David's movies, sometimes through my fingers, but definitely I have seen every one of your movies. But you did, I mean, you did scare all of us all along. And I think the kids in the neighborhood really loved it. I mean, they would line up for you to create, you know, blood effects on them, and scare them, and use them in your films. I mean, that was definitely the beginning.

David Yarovesky: My wife and I, Autumn and I, scare each other or try to scare each other a lot and I'll often film it at like, at like a very fast, like, like a high frame rate so I can get like the best shock look on her face. And there's something really interesting that happens if you really watch it, is that first, there's that shock when you're screaming because you've been scared. But the next thing that happens if you just go a couple frames forward is a big grin, a big smile like, got me, or like, man, I can't believe… There's that moment, and I don't know, I think I was always chasing that moment. That moment makes me laugh.

Mishawn Nolan: Well, it's, a tremendous impact, right? It's not just, that's nice or, that was a nice moment, or that was pleasant. It's being scared is a huge emotional response.

David Yarovesky: Yeah, yeah, that's true. It's also like, things are actually scary in the world, there's real things to be afraid of. And so, I think maybe horror movies are a really fun way to explore that safely and sort of belittle and sort of take on your other fears. Cause you're like, okay, well, it wasn't that scary. It was kind of fun, or whatever, it sort of allows you to practice experiencing fear.

Mishawn Nolan: But one thing I learned from you is that horror movies are actually a genre. It's not just scary movies. There are actual elements to a horror movie and you could tell multiple types of stories through that vehicle. Can you describe for the people listening, what is the horror genre?

David Yarovesky: Yeah, I mean, yeah, so I have a strong opinion on it, but it's not it's not I don't, I don't know if it's like conventionally accepted or if it, if it's and if anyone else would agree with me or not But to me it's a, it's like a you know every genre is like almost like a box of tools to, like, tell a story. It's like the bones of what a story is. And so, like every scene in every movie to some degree has a genre and it might not be the genre of the movie, you know? There's comedy beats in horror and there's horror beats in drama, you know? It's sort of like, how are you going to tell this story? I mean, if you imagine sitting at a computer and going like, okay, I'm going to tell the story of what happened to me today. Like I just walked and got this coffee and I can tell it to you in a way where there's a punchline and it probably won't be very good, but because nothing interesting happened. But like, I could tell it you in a way where there's a punchline, where it's a setup for a payoff, where there's a playful angle on what it is, right? And then I could tell it to you in a way that builds anticipation.

For me, horror is about being planted in someone's POV, experiencing the minute to minute like, fearful experience, like confronting something awful. Like when I was making Brightburn, we had all these like really big, crazy, elaborate VFX plans and like, he's going to, you know, fly and leap over here and he's going to burn through his dad's face with laser eyes. But I kept saying, the scariest part of this movie is going to be someone walking through the house going, Hello? Hello? Who's there? Did I hear something? That is the scariest part of every horror movie. And so that tells you something, right? That is really what that genre is about, right?

Mishawn Nolan: Yes.

David Yarovesky: Like for example, I would argue that Silence of the Lambs is not a horror movie. It's a thriller. It's like a procedural crime thriller. And the third act becomes a horror movie. So, like basically the whole movie is someone's trying to solve murders, right? And we're in the perspective of an FBI agent, not really someone who's in trouble. Every once in a while, we go to the person who's in trouble, but we're an FBI agent who's like trying to solve the case. So, this is a crime thriller and we're trying to solve it. But at the end the lights go out and she's in a house in the dark and someone's hunting her with night vision goggles. And then suddenly that is definitely a horror movie, right? That's like a horror tool set. So, there's a horror sequence at the end of the procedural crime thriller. I don't know, that's my perspective on it. I don't know if it's right or wrong, but that's how I look at it.

Mishawn Nolan: Yeah, it makes sense. So, you started out, right, with just scaring people and playing around with like blood and guts and body parts and stuff. But at some point, you discovered storytelling, right? You discovered writing and directing and storytelling. From my recollection, I could be wrong, but I recall you going to French Woods camp and you started actually creating films.

David Yarovesky: Yeah.

Mishawn Nolan: In high school in camp. Is that when you discovered the storytelling aspect?

David Yarovesky: Yeah, probably. Yeah, I mean, I needed something to do effects for, you can't just generically do effects. So, I started writing these little stories and shooting them. So, they're just like, vehicles for me to try to accomplish shots and try to figure out how to do a shot here or there. And the story was pretty secondary at first for me, but it became quite clear…so I don't even know if you know this whole story, Mishawn, but like so, my dad, our dad… my sister's interviewing me… So, our dad was working with Rick Baker on something. I don't know what it was. And he brought me to Rick Baker Studios to, like, meet him. And that dude was like my idol at the time. This is when I was like very focused on like makeup effects, you know, and trying to emulate him. And I had read that he when he was growing up, he like swept up the shop for Dick Smith and I was like 15 or something at the time and I was like, you know, hey, like, I'll work for free. I'll come sweep up the shop, like anything. And he's like, OK, I see what you're doing.

Like, you know, we can't really do that anymore because labor laws kind of mess that up, and that these buildings are full of chemicals now and blah, blah. He's like, but if you're serious about becoming a makeup effects artist, here's Dick Smith has a makeup school. You should go to that. OK, he gave me the number. And then I was terrified to call that number for a very long time.

And then like one day on like a Sunday, maybe a couple of weeks later I called on Sunday because I think I didn't want anyone to actually pick up. I just wanted to see if it actually was…that's how intimidated I was by the whole thing. And so, I called on a Sunday and someone picked up immediately, this woman, and I was like, hi, Rick Baker gave me this number for, is this Dick Smith's makeup school? And she went, Dick, pick up the phone. And then he picked up the phone and then he talked to me for like an hour. And that was crazy, what he said to me was, he said, what do you want to, like, why do you want to do this job? And I told him, you know, I like doing this and I like setting up these shots and figuring this stuff out. And then like, I write these scripts. he was like, you're not a makeup effects artist. You're just not. And I was like, what do mean? He's like, you're a filmmaker, you're a writer, director, you're a filmmaker, a storyteller, go do that. That's what I, he was right. He was totally right.

Mishawn Nolan: And that was high school.

David Yarovesky: Yeah, like early part of high school, yeah.

Mishawn Nolan: And so, since high school, you have known that this is what you wanted to do. I mean, it didn't seem odd at the time for you to know at such an early age what you wanted to do. My kids are teenagers. If they knew what they wanted to do for the rest of their lives, I would think that that was incredible. I would be shocked if they knew what they wanted. But you knew.

David Yarovesky: Yeah. Yeah, I knew I knew but also like I somehow knew that like not only this was something I wanted to do, but that I'd be good at it, which is difficult, right? Because like you hear me saying, I knew I was not going to be a good makeup artist. Like, I could not sculpt. I could not paint. I couldn't airbrush. I couldn't do any of those things. I didn't have that. And for some reason, I'd look at a movie, I'd look at shooting a movie, and I could see the story, I could see all the beats, I could see what needs to happen, I could understand the character and what they're going through. I don't know, I just was like, I think I could be good at this. I don't know why.

Mishawn Nolan: And you just knew and you said, this is what I'm going to do. And so, then what was the journey like from that phone call, recognizing that you're actually a filmmaker to getting to actually make feature films?

David Yarovesky: It was a long road. Like, if you consider that I was making things in middle school, right? But let's say high school. And then I actually made my first film when I was 34, was when I shot the first feature. So that's a long journey.

Mishawn Nolan: Yes, it is.

David Yarovesky: And like over the course of that time, I worked as a music video director, commercial director, I made a couple short films. I was always working on, to me, I just kept shooting. I kept shooting, I kept shooting, I kept shooting. Academics, another thing I just immediately recognized, I was never going to be good at. It just wasn't my thing. I couldn't pay attention, I couldn't focus, and I didn't care. So, it was just impossible; I would be in school and they'd be talking to me and be like, what the hell is this? And then at night I'd be working and like very quickly I had, you know, film, and it's like got seen, uh, like a short film. So, it was like playing in some like tiny festivals and then, the same time I was working on this little animated thing and, I met this company that was like starting to represent bands for online marketing, which was like a new concept at the time, which really makes me sound quite old. And they had a meeting with me and they said to me - this will make me sound really old - so apparently you can put video on the internet and we think that's going to be big, and we think bands are going to need video on the internet. so, we want to send someone out to just, like, film stuff.

So, I was just a PA working for free, but I was very quickly thrown into like, in that era, every band you could possibly name, like I shot stuff for, just everyone - Good Charlotte, Pussycat Dolls, Enrique Iglesias, 50 Cent, like, it was just like every artist that was working, I was working with. I was meeting them and I was finding opportunities and developing relationships with people. And also, just like, I was shooting, like I'd shoot and cut. Then I got in with labels and then I made like some shady backdoor deal with someone who was working at a label who was also like representing skaters and action sports athletes and so, I started shooting skaters and bands, and I was just man. I was pumping stuff out.

Mishawn Nolan: That takes a lot of courage to say, don't know what I'm doing. I've never done this before, but just send me out and I'm just going to shoot it. How did you have the bravery to do that?

David Yarovesky: I mean, that's a good question. I'll tell you what's scary. What's scary is sending script revisions to Anthony Hopkins. You know, that's scary. You're like, he's like one of the greatest living actors, if not the greatest. Hope he likes my dialogue pass. You know, like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if he's going to think I'm an idiot or if he's going to, you know, so like I, I I've kind of run into those things my whole life and I just, I think it's why I was like, I could do this because I knew I could, that's something I could do. I could get in a room with someone like that and just not allow the weight of their celebrity status or whatever like, affect me or deter me from what I was doing. I just saw that I could do these things, you know?

Mishawn Nolan: And so, the path was a long road and it was a difficult road. Did you ever question yourself and say, why am I doing this? I should rethink this and do something else?

David Yarovesky: On every movie I've ever made. Every time I release a movie and about a million times in between. Yeah, there was a time when I was like 32. You know, I still hadn't made my first movie and I was long past that like nightmarish 27, like 27 for filmmakers is just a rough year. Cause you just always hear like Spielberg had his big one and Tim Burton had his big one, like 27 just seemed to be this like, Robert Rodriguez broke out at 27, and it's like you just hear that and you go, well, I'm 28. I'm 29, I'm 30.

Mishawn Nolan: I failed.

David Yarovesky: I failed, right? And at 30, somewhere around 31, 32, I was like, it struck me. I was like, I bet my whole life on being able to do this and it might not, might not work out for me. Like what is that going to look like? And that is just terrifying, you know? Like I don't have a...I can't, there's no plan B… used to like say, it used to be like my expression, there's no plan B, like this, I have to. So, it always feels like there's a gun to my head, like I have to, you know?

Mishawn Nolan: And obviously something happened that you said, okay, I'm on the right track. Cause each movie you make, you're like, why am I doing this? But something then has to happen along the road in the experience that you say, okay, I'm doing the right thing.

David Yarovesky: Because look, it takes - there's a certain kind of brain that can look at the world and see what's happening and see what your odds - like when I was young and I thought I'm to be a director. I thought 100 percent I'm going to be a director. Like, I looked at film, I saw Wes Craven and Sam Raimi and those guys, and was like, I'm going to be their friend. Like, like, there was just no doubt. Like I was like, I'm going to be one of them. And then the older, I got - I went dude, I was crazy, like if I knew everything I knew now and were to start over like I'm not totally sure I would have gone down this path, only because I mean I don't know what other path I could have possibly gone down, but the thing is there's just something in my mind, there's a kind of optimism there's a kind of like blind faith in myself and my ability to do it, that like, that that allowed me to go, you know what? Like, yeah, I hear that. I hear that, I know, it's one in a million that I'm going to like make a movie that's going to be in a theater. And then I've done it three times now.

And, and so, you know, it's just I don't know, but I think there's a special mind that can sort of look at something and I think it's connected to like, man, making that movie was so hard. It took a piece of me away with it, but I got this new movie and maybe this one won't take as big of a chunk of my soul with it. But I think that's kind of like, I think it's connected to that. I'll tell you a story really quick that's kind of connected to what I'm saying and I think connected to what these questions are. You know, I worship the ground that Sam Raimi walked on as a kid. And then I worked with him, right? I've worked with him twice. And the first time, we had our first week of shooting and Sam saw my dailies. We had already been getting along great.

He watched my dailies that week. I got on with him, did not know what I was going to run into. And we had like an hour Zoom planned and he spent the hour just gushing about how much he loved the way I was speaking to the actors, how like, I was shooting the movie, how I was making it, like he just gushed for like an hour. And I was like, just floored and I looked up at the end of the call, my wife was like in tears, she was like, my God, did you ever think that you would get a call like that from Sam Raimi, from your idol. Did you ever think that that would be a thing? And I thought for a second and I was like, yeah, I always thought that that was going to happen for me. And then, somewhere in my life, I forgot that. I forgot that that was where I was going, I started to believe the fear and the panic the weight of everything working against you. And then it felt like, yeah, of course that would never happen. But initially, if I really think about it, initially, I just knew it was going to happen one day. I don't know why, I just knew it.

Mishawn Nolan: But that optimism has stayed with you because even through all the doubts and all the fear, some driving force has pushed you forward to keep doing this over and over and over.

David Yarovesky: Yeah, mean, you know, when we started working on Brightburn, James said, who do you want to play the lead? And I was like; it should be Elizabeth Banks. Like I was reading it. I think it'd be cool to see you guys working on a project together. I think that would like speak to the horror community and be like, look, these two are coming back together. That's going to be awesome. And I think she's in the perfect place in her career, to like do this movie and like, kill it on this movie and she loves horror. I just I saw a path for her doing this movie and, the first thing I heard was, she's prepping to shoot a movie. So, it's probably not going to happen. I was like, okay, but I kept pushing and then I met with some actresses who were great, but I just kept pushing. And then, I walked into my agent's office and there was like, a piece of paper, I think on the table I wasn't supposed to see. It was just a list of names. It was like, Chris Pratt and Bryan Cranston, and then Elizabeth Banks. And I was like, what's this list? And they said, these are people whose projects like pushed or slipped and are like available immediately right now to do something - like Elizabeth Banks is available like right now to do something? He was like, yeah, I called James like, we need to send this to Elizabeth right now. She's available. They're telling me she's available. The thing pushed, let's go. I think two days later we were in her office. And I left that going, she's going to do the movie. And still everyone was like, we got to make a deal. We got to do this, we got to do this. But I looked at her, she was excited about the script. She was excited about the project. She really got it. And I was like, she's going to do the movie. We'll work it out, I know. And so whatever that thing is, it's been wrong many times. You know, I've been totally wrong about things. But the belief helps like push it into reality, if that makes any sense.

Mishawn Nolan: Yeah, and so I, I visited you on set for Locked and you're the, you were the calmest person on set. Like everyone is pulling on you and they have a million things and you were always so stable and nothing really shook you. And I think it's because like it's, it's this through line. It's this optimistic, the alignment, everything's going to line up, and everything's going to be fine, don't worry about it. And it's like you have this focus on vision. So, like when you're on set and everyone's pulling at you, not only the people there, but the actors and all their team, they're pulling on you, whether they're physically there or otherwise, the studio is pulling on you. I mean, everyone wants something from you. How do you block it all out and stay focused?

David Yarovesky: Yeah, I'd say there's two things. Number one, I look like a guy who's made four movies now. It's just like, which in terms of a career of a filmmaker, maybe that's not that many. And so, you're like, kind of like a newer filmmaker. But I've spent a decade shooting music videos and being on set and shooting commercials and shooting short, like, and then before that shooting endless seas of content for so many people. So, to me, I look around, I see 200 people working on set and I'm like, okay, but I remember when it was three of us, and like we got the shot. And so, if this falls apart, if that falls apart, like I have a certain kind of confidence that I know all. I'll figure it out, and I know we'll get there. That's, I think, a piece of it is just being on set, shooting enough, then cutting together enough to know, okay, like, I know we can solve it. I know we'll figure it out. I know we'll get there. We'll solve the scene.

And then the other thing was, very early in my music video career, I had like a line producer when you're first starting out, it's just like, hey, hey, here's my friend. They kind of want to do this too. So, they're the line producer, you know, and we, it sort of works like that. And that person was on set, just, they looked completely stressed out and, and they looked like they were getting their ass kicked by the job. But I, I clocked a couple of times. I looked at them and I was like; I think they think that this is making it look like they're doing a lot. Like they're really working hard and it was doing the opposite. It was making me very concerned that things were getting overlooked, that they weren't on top of it. And so, I kind of realized in that moment that it's not enough to do a good job. You have to make it look easy. You have to...do such a good job and you have to be a rock, an unmovable rock. And so that's sort of the goal.

Mishawn Nolan: Being a director, I would assume is pretty lonely. It's like being a CEO. You don't have any peers. There's no peer to bounce things off of, right? How did you build like a team around you that you can bounce things off of? How do you avoid being lonely?

David Yarovesky: Yeah. Well, I don't, I just am lonely. Like making a movie is lonely. At the end of the day, it just is. The crew is the crew; the producers are the producers. You're the filmmaker, and it's just isolating. I can't quite explain why until you walk in these shoes, but it's just, there's no one else like you on set. And what drives you is not what's driving everyone else. You're there for a completely different reason. And most of the time you can't tell, but you always know. they're there to serve me, they want to make me happy. They want like me to go, good job. I'm happy with what you did here, but I, I'm serving myself. It's all internal. It’s like, did I live up to my own expectation of what the scene can be, what this movie can be? And so, it's just, it's just lonely. It's so lonely. It's so lonely. I work with my wife who helps with that, absolutely.

And then my DP who I've shot a lot, he's like a I've shot three out of the four movies with, he's like a brother to me. Having him on set is great. But I guess at the end of the day, just accept that I'll feel lonely and it's okay to feel things. Like I'll just be lonely during this period. Like there are worse things I could be. I could be hungry, I could be exhausted because I was lugging things, all the time, there's it's just like, I'll be lonely. You know, that's what it is.

Mishawn Nolan: that's part of the reason that I make this podcast is because creative business makers are very lonely. It's just the reality of the job because there is no one else in either the organization or on the project that is walking in your shoes that is a peer that you can connect with. And so, hearing stories of other people like you who are, you know, the rock and the one who's alone, I think it makes people feel less lonely. Yeah.

David Yarovesky: Less alone. it's, you know, it's, really enjoy talking to other directors and hearing their experience because sometimes you can go through a movie and you can go, am I crazy? Like that was just, it was so difficult. It was so difficult to pull off, to get through that journey. Like, you know, it's like climbing a fucking mountain sometimes. And then you sit down and you talk to someone else and they're like, yeah, it was really, really hard to make this one. And this is why, and you hear about the unique challenges they had, which will be different than your challenges, but the end result is the same. It's like, it's just really, really, really, really, really, really, really hard. I met one filmmaker one time who looked at me and was like, it's easy. And I don't really like his movies.

Mishawn Nolan: Probably not very authentic.

David Yarovesky: Yeah, in my mind, I was like, of course, of course you think it's easy. Of course it's easy.

Mishawn Nolan: And your movies reflected it.

David Yarovesky: Well, it's just, clearly, he doesn't have the voice that I have in my head. That's like, that is not good enough. Like you need to, you know, yeah.

Mishawn Nolan: So, the industry is undergoing tremendous change, right? It's always been undergoing change, but right now it feels like every day between technological changes and economic model changes, and mergers and laying people off, it just feels like the entertainment industry is just upside down and spinning around all the time. And there's a lot of creatives that are really rethinking, what am I doing? How am I going to make money? Because maybe my job, or part of my job has been replaced. Everyone is sort of in a reinvention mindset. The reason I wanted to, one of the reasons I wanted to interview you is because from my perspective, you've always been really clear on this is who I am. Like, from the time you were like two years old, you're like, I love horror. You know, to this day, I love horror. And you wanted to tell these stories. You've known since high school, like, I want to tell these stories. You've been very clear. What advice do you have for people in the industry who are rethinking what they're doing and thinking about pivoting and reinventing themselves? How do they go about taking the skills and the talents and the passion they have and becoming something else?

David Yarovesky: Well, I think if you can close your eyes and imagine being happy doing anything else, reinventing yourself in any other way, go do that. Like just go do that. I can't, you know, I mean, there's a couple things that I think of, but they're really closely related and they're as complicated. For those people who cannot, who just cannot picture a life in which they would be happy doing other things, I think that...There's always been this war between the industry and the artist. And what we've seen over the last 20 years is it's become a bigger and a bigger industry and the artistry has gone less and less. And the artist has needed the industry because, like, hey, I've got an idea for this cool thing, but it's going to cost me $50 million to pull it off. Well, it’s not going to cost me $50 million to pull it off anymore. So, the industry needs us, and is going to need us more and more, and we're going to need them less and less, is sort of what I'm saying. It's like the tools that are coming out, and it's going to democratize storytelling. And if you're someone who needs to tell stories, you'll have the tools.

When I was growing up, I had a video camera that I couldn't physically hold. It was so heavy. I needed help moving it around and putting it on a tripod. I know it's such a cliche. It's such a stupid cliche to be like, and then there's a movie shot on an iPhone that's in theaters. But like, for real, I just went on vacation to Costa Rica and I took raw images with my phone and they looked better than the stuff I shot on my Mirrorless, like A7, they looked incredible. My jaw hit the floor, was like, this is really happening. And not only that, it's just, things are changing. And it's like, I think the key is to not be married to something. Don't be married to, it has to be like it was when I was a kid because it isn't like it was when you were a kid. So, tell your story, make a great story and people will come. People want to hear your story. They want to be entertained by you. They want it. If it's good, if it's not, then they don't want it. It's just like, that's what it is. Every time you see a good movie that's really good, that really speaks to you, you tell everyone you know, yo, you got to see this.

Mishawn Nolan: For sure.

David Yarovesky: Because we all want it and we all want to tell other people like, yo, you should see this, it's really good. We want to share those stories with each other. I don't know, I think just make good stuff and yeah, just push yourself, like scrutinize yourself, like allow yourself to be crushed by the response and then fix it and make it better and then try again and then be crushed again, and then fix it again until someone sees it and goes, hey, that didn't suck. And then you're like, I'm onto something.

Mishawn Nolan: David, thank you very much. I really appreciate your time and sharing your insights and your story with us.

David Yarovesky: Yeah, I'm happy to. This was really fun.

Mishawn Nolan: Thank you.

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